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Old 05-04-2017, 13:43   #141   link
Irmo
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Ik heb me geamuseerd.
Het liep enorm vlot.
Het zag er goed uit.

Dus voor mij was het een leuk spel.
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Fidoh vond het te lang

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Old 05-04-2017, 14:01   #142   link
CSM
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Originally Posted by Irmo View Post
Gisteren voor het eerst gespeeld. Wat een spel. Fenomenaal. Blij dat ik het met de originele KS gebacked heb.
Typisch dat ook Lijkkist zich hier aan laat vangen, lol.

We zijn trouwens weer eens een half jaar verder, zonder een Star Citizen release of uitzicht op een release.

Wat een verrassing.
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Old 05-04-2017, 14:12   #143   link
Irmo
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Originally Posted by CSM View Post
Typisch dat ook Lijkkist zich hier aan laat vangen, lol.

We zijn trouwens weer eens een half jaar verder, zonder een Star Citizen release of uitzicht op een release.

Wat een verrassing.
nog erger zelfs, ik heb één van de eerste posts over star citizen op het forum gezet. Dus iedereen heeft zich laten vangen door mij!

#elaboratetroll
#geenracisme
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Old 05-04-2017, 14:26   #144   link
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Ik heb twintig minuten na u in deze thread gepost, en ik heb 80 euro aan Star Citizen verdiend, dus merci?
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Old 05-04-2017, 14:31   #145   link
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Wat maffia praktijken:
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In this context, Liz Finnegan wrote two controversial articles about the game on The Escapist in 2015. In the more sensational of the two, a number of current and ex-employees speaking anonymously accused the game’s lead developer, Chris Roberts, of everything from discriminatory hiring practices to embezzlement of backer funds. The article won third place in the Society of Professional Journalists “Kunkel” awards for video game news reporting.

This month both articles were suddenly removed from The Escapist website (archived here and here). Roberts’ lengthy and somewhat bizarre response to the article, published on the Star Citizen‘s website Roberts Space Industries, also appeared to have been taken down in January (archived here).

Both Defy Media (the owner of The Escapist) and Cloud Imperium Games, the game’s developer, gave the same statement for why the pieces were taken down. “CIG and The Escapist have mutually agreed to delete their comments about each other. We wish each other well and look forward to better relations in 2017.”

It seems Defy Media simply no longer wanted the threat of a lawsuit hanging over their heads, and decided to axe the articles. This kind of arrangement happens often in media, where larger companies can stick up for themselves while smaller players simply cannot afford the risk of a major lawsuit.

https://heatst.com/gaming/huge-crowd...bbed-from-web/
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Old 05-04-2017, 15:49   #146   link
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Langer stuk over game design and SC:
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Unpacking why SC is doomed from a technical perspective is conveniently (for chris roberts) very tough because it's extremely hard to get people's attentions long enough to elaborate on why making games is hard and you can't just ideas-guy development teams into doing the impossible. let's try to break Star Citizen down by starting from the abstract:

game engines are, at their core, real time operating systems (RTOS)

you have disparate systems that need to be scheduled, informed of things like user input or network activity, share state + somehow send messages to each other (or, more dangerously, directly reference each other), be maintained to respect logical contracts etc. there's not a lot of shortcuts you can take between these systems without introducing serious consequences to your runtime stability or overall code maintainability, you need to design it Right™ and early and not let it slip when other people start helping you maintain/grow the engine.

the above outlines the overall concepts an "engine developer" has to maintain and grapple with. this is explicitly distinct from a "game developer" which I'll outline next.

engine development is all very complicated and often way more brittle than you expect. How many "complete" racing games have you seen on the Source engine compared to FPS games? The answer is obvious and influenced strongly by the products the original engine developers were aiming for. Some engines, like Unity, have done a great job at not being married to any one framework of gameplay but that ultimately results in a larger conceptual gap that a "game developer" might need to fill if they aren't an experienced "engine" developer or aren't good at building their own operating frameworks for the kind of game they want to make. In something like Unity there's no built in concept of guns or inventory or reticles or chat systems or existing game-like behavior. unity bridges this gap a bit with an asset store but then you are banging differently shaped puzzle pieces made by strangers together that might not fit nicely

The following are questions you need to answer and grasp the implications of when making any game and picking an engine that will suit your development style: first person? racing? strategy? turn based? multiplayer? single player? local multiplayer? physics a part of the gameplay or just aesthetic? persistent centralized accounts (ie: an MMO or something like it)? ad hoc p2p player servers? the list goes on, but you need answers to every question you can think of that is a core component of your game.

The answers to these questions will influence what kinds of problems you're signing yourself up to solve. If I know I'm making a 20 player arena based FPS shooter, I might as well go with UDK because out of the box it has templates and a lot of community discussion surrounding making FPS games and it has a history of being for that, the engine will present low friction for this problem set. If I try to make an FPS game in game maker or from scratch in C++, I'm going to be miserable and have to basically reinvent every single wheel.

Every system your game needs, that your engine may or may not make easy on you, needs to interact well with its dependent systems & providers at run-time and also be maintainable and ideally compartmentalized, you don't want to realize half way through development that upgrading your engine to the latest upstream (which comes with features you've been begging for) will break literally everything because you were coding around undocumented potentially-is-actually-a-bug behavior in the engine because you didn't really grok the intent outlined in the documentation and naively code-bashed your way into a solution. developers in all software need to develop a 6th sense for what "smells bad" when trying to make a framework do something it wasn't meant for, leading you to overarchitect some things in some cases, but also make extreme but convenient and well-weighed short-cuts in others. this specific skill along with the ability to set expectations reasonably ( ) is at the crux of being a good software developer.

Realistically it is impossible to design perfect game systems in a vacuum that you can plug and play together with any sort of configuration, there's always a compromise or some sort of edge case you're introducing with other systems and you end up having to write a bunch of special edge case marshalling to do things like: translate between one spacial system to another, or have one set of physics objects follow one set of rules while another set of physics objects follows another. and the way you implement these systems will concrete you into behavior that will exclude other potentialities for designs in the game.

Now let's talk about Crytek and Cryengine. Cryengine specifically set out to solve one very specific set of problems in game development: rendering huge amounts of space & geography efficiently and having such large space also work sanely in multiplayer. This made it naturally suited for cool homebrew games like Mechwarrior: Living Legends. The engine already had existing frameworks for things such as controlling vehicles, rendering day/night cycles, complex shader techniques for mapping textures onto bump maps in a way that doesn't stretch, conveniences in the editor for editing large amounts of geometry and placing & rendering roads (entire white papers exist for rendering/editing roads sanely in bump-map engines lol).

That said, it's clear why at first glance Cryengine seemed like a good fit for SC, you have huge swathes of space as a game problem you need to solve, lo and behold Cryengine offers a partial solution at first glance. Cryengine also featured some zero-g segments at times, which I'm sure made Chris Robert's eyes pop out of his fucking sockets on one of his major coke fueled gaming benders in a sad poorly furnished mcmansion somewhere.

It's not insanely difficult, if you have any game programming experience, to hop into an engine like Cryengine and start prototyping some things. Let's create a blank level, let's make the skybox be a nice starry sky texture, let's set gravity to 0, let's subclass the vehicle class and drop in one of our models. The engine is very low friction for this hello world smoke test. So you start flying around in your shitty 3d mesh and are feeling like a programming/game development god, zooming around thinking "Wow this is gonna be EASY", then you fly to far down on the Y axis and start drowning. "what the fuck" you whisper as you squint. It's too late though, your boss, Chris Roberts, saw this early smoke test of assets and quickly started drafting up earnest estimates on how long OTHER systems will take, as if the demo you threw together is actually complete (when it's not). If you dont know how to hire devs you might put a senior dev in place who also doesn't grok how much actual work is left to be done and enforces your boss' stupid promises based on what isn't real game development. Guns are now pointed at you to fix the "small" issue or you'll be holding up the schedule (that no one consulted you about). so you work a weekend and dive into wtf happens when Y axis < CRY_WATER_LINE_HEIGHT. You find an instance in the base player controller logic and fix it, thinking you're done, but -- fuck it turns out the physics subsystem also uses that same CRY_WATER_LINE_HEIGHT constant to do some optimizations, so you start grepping the code for that code instance and try flipping it off, except you don't realize there are some extra subsystems hidden somewhere that don't reference that constant like they should also do their own weird rendering tricks or optimizations when Y approaches that magic value.

there's a phrase in software development and especially games: 90% of the time is spent on the last 10% of polish. the last mile problem is super fucking real in gamedev, seemingly tiny things in the grand scope of what you're delivering can make or break your game experience for players, and it's always those "tiny" things that are the results of weird edge cases from literally hundreds of subsystems interacting with eachother through the engine.

now, take the water example and apply it to basically everything. most likely every single system in cryengine has some kind of limit to what it was built to do originally and there are always unexpected results when you push engines into territory they werent developed for or tested for. now if you consider how Chris is pushing people to ship shitty demos and move on instead of developing a strong foundation for the rest of the game: you start to imagine how one could half ass a system for an effect in demo and how "ok but it wont work outside of this or with any of the other things we talked about" might fall on deaf ears to a demonstrable cant-actually-delegate-or-listen-to-reason dingus like CRoberts.

now i want to introduce the final nail in the coffin. I could write like an essay on the basic MMO problem space but I wont, i'll keep it simple: MMOs are one of the hardest possible problems to tackle in a game development context from a resource management perspective. the amount of resource expertise (developers, architects, planning) and continued cost of servers and CPU/network time are as big as it gets in game development, and not only that but your game needs to be architected incredibly precisely to fit into the featureset your MMO imagination describes. you really can spare no unnecessary complexity when attempting an MMO, your scope needs to be VERY specific for your first release ( )

Even on a basic employee headcount level, Star Citizen doesn't employ nearly the number of experienced developers required for a project of this size, not only that but we all have plenty of evidence as to CRobert's awful management styles given how many rewrites and "refactors" occur for even the existing unfinished systems. there are clear, glaring signs of bad software development planning and inexperienced game developers rushing a product (while senior ones seem to keep leaving , weird!! ).

absolutely none of this is conducive to shipping the PU as shitizens imagine. they will never see their game. making games is really complicated, making multiplayer games is even MORE complicated, making MASSIVELY multiplayer games is THE most resource intensive & complicated from a project management perspective.
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:48   #147   link
onbewust
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'twas te peinzen dat lijkkist idioot genoeg zou zijn om dezen brol te backen.
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[00:37:26] <blumcole> ik ben ooit eens rond 9 wakker geworden in mijne zetel en der lag nen drol in de wc maar geen wc papier
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:24   #148   link
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Vanwaar de verbazing? Het eerste woord in de thread is lijkkist...
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Old 06-04-2017, 17:06   #149   link
Dj El Marriachi
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Ik denk dat het niet zo vreemd is dat veel mensen dat indertijd hebben gebacked.
Het is wel vreemd dat er nu nog steeds hopen mensen zijn die geloven dat dit het beste spel ooit wordt. Kickstarter was begot in 2012.
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Old 06-04-2017, 17:14   #150   link
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beetje naïef misschien kijkende wat ze toen allemaal zogezegd gingen waarmaken maar begrijpbaar inderdaad

maar het feit dat mensen nu nog durven dwepen met een spel dat duidelijk een gigantische scam is, euh ja, toch wel beetje hilarisch. langs de andere kant lijkt het mij nagenoeg onmogelijk om fanboys te overtuigen dat hun spel een gigantische scheme is, zeker als ze er zo emotioneel en financieel in geïnvesteerd zijn. hell, kijk naar die halve gare van het zelda fandom die alleen met emotionele investering al gelijk hysterische wijven reageerde op de minste kritiek van't spel, enfin, alle kritiek die niet lovend was stond gelijk aan een resem van doodswensen, doodsbedreigingen en wat nog allemaal. stekezot.

gooi daar nog eens al het geld zelf en de "economie" met die ships erbij, daar gaan nog goeie verhalen uit komen.
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Old 07-04-2017, 21:36   #151   link
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De oorspronkelijke ambitie was zo groot dat het feitelijk absurd is te geloven dat ze dit ooit kunnen waarmaken. Ik trek eerder in dat opzicht de kaart van incompetentie dan de andere wilde theorieën. Maar goed, kickstarter of crowd-funding is geen preorder, beetje voorzichtig mee omspringen. Ik ben alvast blij dat mijn geld naar Elite Dangerous is gegaan, een stuk minder ambitie maar men lever op weetewel.
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